RIP Mandela

[Zardoz]

One of his wives seems like a psychopath. Aint love grand?
Winnie Madikizela-Mandela

[adesole]

Maybe. But was he a communist or wasn't he? He certainly seems to have been surrounded by lots of Communists, and many Jewish communists even.

The last I heard is that the head of the South African central bank is a Jewish lady, Gill Marcus.

South Africa is under the same ownership as America

[haarp]

The ANC and Soviet Union were close, unless you're of the opinion that the Soviets were genuinely against apartheid and were concerned about human well being, otherwise of course the issue was hijacked. I'm not going to call anyone a "great man" after killing random people on the street to gain attention for their 'cause'. It seems to me people trip over themselves for this guy because he didn't come out of prison and start a civil war, apparently that makes him great, thanks Mandela for not killing people when you got released. It's strange.

In terms of actually doing something other than giving fancy speeches, using terms like "love" "conscience" "democracy" "freedom" all these meaningless catchphrases every politician uses to gain support from people uneducated in semantics, there's nothing new brought forward. No blueprint, no verifiable way of understanding what this person is going to achieve. Ok you don't want skin colour to be an issue, what do you know about human behavior and how it can be changed? What do you propose? Simply giving speeches, setting up arbitrary affirmative action laws, and just hoping for the best is not revolutionary.

Empty rhetoric http://thinkprogress.org/home/2013/12/0 ... wont-talk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but look how it pleases the political left.

"You are twice as likely to be murdered if you are a white farmer than if you are a police officer”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22554709" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But those activists who want to make the Palestinian cause the 21st-century equivalent of the movement that opposed South African apartheid in the 20th century will—assuming they conform to basic standards of honesty—find it very difficult to invoke Mandela as support. Mandela’s memoirs are full of positive references to Jews and even Israel. He recalls that he learned about guerilla warfare not from Fidel Castro, but from Arthur Goldreich, a South African Jew who fought with the Palmach during Israel’s War of Independence. He relates the anecdote that the only airline willing to fly his friend, Walter Sisulu, to Europe without a passport was Israel’s own El Al. And the ultimate smoking gun—the equation of Israel’s democracy with apartheid—doesn’t exist.

Mandela once wrote that Jews, in his experience, were far more sensitive about race because of their own history. Now, it is absolutely true that there are parallels between the oppression suffered by South African blacks under racist white rulers, and Jews living under hostile non-Jewish rulers. The notorious Group Areas Act, which restricted black residency rights, brings to mind the enforced separation of Jews into the “Pale of Settlement” by the Russian Empress Catherine in 1791. Many of the other apartheid regulations, like the ban on sexual relationships between whites and blacks, carried echoes of the Nazi Nuremburg Laws of 1935.

Mandela’s diagnosis was that Africans should be the sovereigns of their own destiny. Similarly, the founders of Zionism wanted nothing less for the Jews.
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/12/05/ne ... d-zionism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... enial.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[R4F1]

Nelson Mandela did have ties to communist groups, and he was a communist sympathizer, and he was arguably a leftist throughout his lifetime. But you can say the same thing about Arafat, same thing about ANY revolutionary leader who was fighting against Western-backed imperialism during their day. This drift towards Leftism is merely a REACTION (i.e. Blowback) to the Western-backed right-wing fascism shown in South Africa, Palestine, Latin America, etc.

To now dismiss Mandela or condemn him using that example, is outright ridiculous. It shows where one's priorities lie. And i can't even believe how so many of these people are pointing out the fact that Mandela was on the US "terrorism list". Yeah, so what?! That's supposed to undermine whose credibility exactly, Mandela's or the US'?

Would you have supported the Shah when the CIA/MI5 were plotting against Mosaddegh, cuz they feared he would drift towards the Soviets and had nationalized Iran's oil? Would you support the CIA's support of contras against Nicaragua's president, cuz he was a leftist?! Would you support the rebels against Assad, cuz he's a Baathist pseudosocialist?

You see what I'm getting here?.. Every single libertarian/paleoconservative would normally choose otherwise; now all of a sudden with Mandela its different? People are trying to be too hard to be contrarian. If you wanna go against the stream — then i recommend using the Mandela "US Terrorist list" to undermine the govt's newfound support for the man, rather than trying to smear Mandela instead.

Mandela was NOT a communist (he changed over time to a moderate; the way George Washington, Gandhi changed; both of whom were former British soldiers; like Malcolm X changed, who went from Black-supremacist to tolerant), he was a leftist, and that's HIS own business (given the context). Just like what Iran or Nicaragua do with electing leftists, and what Assad and Gaddaffi do in their country; its their fucking business. People trying to say otherwise are falling for the false paradigm/dialectic. Without right-wing fascism, left-wing authoritarianism cannot exist! Arafat, Mandela, and most other figures would not BE leftists or drift towards the Soviets if it weren't for US backing of fascism in their respective countries.

[haarp]

He and his organization bombed and killed random people on the street to gain attention for ANC ideology, this is why he was on a terrorist list, it's not some conspiracy by white people to put this guy away because he was black like the international media say. He found allies within the USSR, after gaining power he sold mineral rights away. This guy was not really a "heroe" and his speeches only impress people who want to hear this equality shit and don't care about any substance. If you want to pat him on the back for overcoming discrimination that's fine, but this whole "he's one of the greatest men to ever live" shit is pure hyperbole.

"Without right-wing fascism, left-wing authoritarianism cannot exist!"

And vice versa. It's just 1 group of people who disagree with the other groups values or methods of doing things.

[heyjoe]

Truth about Mandela!
http://therebel.org/news/nelson-mandela ... -revealed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good luck watching this.

[R4F1]

He and his organization bombed and killed random people on the street to gain attention for ANC ideology, this is why he was on a terrorist list, it's not some conspiracy by white people to put this guy away because he was black like the international media say. He found allies within the USSR, after gaining power he sold mineral rights away. This guy was not really a "heroe" and his speeches only impress people who want to hear this equality shit and don't care about any substance. If you want to pat him on the back for overcoming discrimination that's fine, but this whole "he's one of the greatest men to ever live" shit is pure hyperbole.

"Without right-wing fascism, left-wing authoritarianism cannot exist!"

And vice versa. It's just 1 group of people who disagree with the other groups values or methods of doing things.

No he wasn't a "greatest" anything type of person, and I never claimed that. Arafat too had issues, he is believed to be extremely corrupt. But that's not why they get their props; their props are for fighting against apartheid and fascism. MLK too was an adulterer, but nobody cares about that, they care that he struggled against discrimination and racism.

People bitching about Mandela, I dont see them supporting the Shah, i dont see them supporting the rebels in Assad. I dont see them supporting the CIA in other cases. So why oppose Mandela now? How is he any different? If you oppose Mandela simply on the basis of being contrarian, then you're just letting the establishment win. Because the establishment will hide the fact that it hated Mandela when it mattered, and now that everyone loves him you're/we're the ones hating on him (which is bad P.R.).

[Int'l man of mystery]

Truth about Mandela!
http://therebel.org/news/nelson-mandela ... -revealed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good luck watching this.

"Egypt isn't Africa"?

Preachers sure say some strange things.

[Bender]

Wait. Some on this thread are dissing Mandela? LOL
I won't even validate you with counter arguments.

[haarp]

lol